insideMAN

Where are men’s voices in debates about abortion?

by 11 Comments

If men don’t join the debate about abortion then how will we ever find out what men’s experience of this important issue is, asks Paul Mills.

A few weeks ago I watched a TV programme which has caused me real thought – so much so, that it has taken me three weeks to be able to successfully sit down and write this article.

The programme concerned was BBC3’s look at the issue of abortion (Abortion – Ireland’s Guilty Secret). The programme was presented in a balanced way by Alys Harte, looking carefully at both sides of the debate and across the community. Like me, the programme acknowledges the real challenges in how we think about this issue and the significant schism between the ‘pro life’ and ‘right to abortion’ camps; and the challenges for example in deciding what is the upper limit in terms of weeks for an abortion to be performed, and under what qualifying circumstances – so that’s not what this article is about.

What this article is about, is asking the question ‘Where are the voices of men in these conversations and debates?’. Astoundingly, during the whole of the programme there was only one relatively young potential father interviewed – and he presented as needy and was very much in a ‘puppy dog’ way supporting his partner and the process she was going through – whilst bemoaning the imperfections of the system.

What we did not see was a single man engaging fully with the programme about his feelings on the abortion of his child, about his involvement in the process and sharing of the decision making, and shared responsibility for the terminated foetus. We were not therefore able to properly access the issue from the male perspective – to begin to appreciate what it is to be a potential father dealing with the questions and emotions and the potentially bowel watering effect of having to choose abortion – or life for ones offspring. I have to say that I became outraged that this is so.

As a man myself I am really clear that my seed is, to me, sacred; and therefore being part of the decision and responsibility/accountability around how the result of its part in creating a life plays out, is something that is probably only eclipsed in importance by a handful of other things – for example an existing other life. So, I asked myself again; where are men in this debate?

I reflected back through my years of adult life and realised that, apart from a handful of professional situations as a coach/mentor I have never heard a single man discuss, celebrate, lament or verbalise in any way, about an abortion he has been involved in as a dad!

How can this be. Apparently there are around 200,000 abortions a year in the UK – that’s 770 per working day! So how can it be that so many men remain almost silent on the matter.

What I did find was a really thought provoking Telegraph article by Neil Lyndon looking at the ‘controversial’ Bill tabled in Ohio, seeking to give fathers a final say in abortion. Now, perhaps unsurprisingly, the bill fell, however it did gain a significant following – and stoked some real questioning about where men’s rights are, in law around the proactive termination of pregnancy.

Our Feminist colleagues point out vociferously that a woman should have absolute rights over her body; this, I have no issue with. At the same time a woman’s body, as the life support system of a foetus – jointed created by the woman and the father must have shared responsibility and , if men and women are truly equal, then the man must have much more voice and say in the destiny of their child; whatever your views about viability and when a sperm and egg transmute into a new life. For me it’s simple. Joint, equal and mutual responsibility and say starts at conception.

So, fellow men, where are our voices, where are our legal and moral rights to a share in the decision making – come on – let’s hear them!

—Photo Credit: Flickr/Treslola

Paul Mills lives on the West coast of Scotland. He is is a parent, a trainer in the education and care sectors, an ex foster carer and therapeutic teacher who cares passionately about and working with young people, especially boys, as they start their life’s journey.

 

 

  • DuncanFisher

    I just find the whole idea of a man imposing a decision on a woman contrary to hers around abortion intolerable. I shared the article on a mainly US forum of dad bloggers and the reaction was very much in the same direction, and strongly expressed. I reckon the answer to why men don’t talk about their rights over abortion is because they generally just don’t agree they have any! However, I do see that a whole TV documentary about abortion without any reference to the role that men have in the decision making rather odd – if the man is close to the
    women, his role is significant, whatever it is, and his reaction has consequences for everyone involved. The question the omission in the documentary raises in my mind is not what rights men have in this situation, but what support they can access (and the couple can access if they are a couple), while the decision is being made and afterwards. I googled the topic and found one thing addressing the potential impacts:
    http://www.menandabortion.info/l0-aftermath.html. I don’t know how reliable this site is, but the take home message is that men’s reactions to abortion are extremely varied, can be quite strong and can have consequences. So engaging with men is a pragmatic welfare issue and not to do with rights.

    • Inside MAN

      Hi Duncan

      Thanks for that considered opinion and adding to the discussion.

      I agree with what you say about this being a pragmatic welfare issue for men, but I also think it’s more to it than that.

      I think it is a rights issue, in two ways.

      First is a cultural rights issues in terms of men asserting their “right” to have a voice in the gender discourse full stop. That’s what insideMAN is all about, it’s about empowering men to assert their “right” to have a view about gender issues—irrespective of whether we agree with that view or not. Men have a right to have a view about abortion and if the way they make sense of the issue is to focus on whether abortion is right or wrong or whether men should have a right to have a say or not, then so be it—-I am of the view that society progresses more quickly when we talk about things than when we don’t talk about things. I personally don’t think the “right v wrong” OR the “men’s v women’s rights” angle is the most important angle, but I do think those who have that view should have space to express it and explore it and have their perspectives tested and challenged.

      The second rights angle, which is interesting to me, is the fact that a woman can both opt out and opt in to parenthood—-and whatever choice she makes the man will also be opted out or opted in to parenthood. That’s a huge amount of power to wield—to have such a huge impact on a man’s life—to prevent him from being a father or to make him into a father.

      Now I’m not suggesting we take away that right from women, but I do think that the “my body my rights” mantra very quickly becomes “my baby my rights” and then “my children my rights”—-and from years of observing family separation at close quarters I’m clear that in problematic case at least, no matter what age the children, the woman generally hold the belief “my children, my rights” and those women are either emotionally disconnected from (or simply don’t care about) the traumatic impact that their claim of “ownership” of the children has on both the children and on their father.

      It seems to me that if parenting is to evolve into a much more gender equal pursuit, then one of the things that needs to happen is that women need to give up their claim to have greater ownership of their children than men—they need to let got of the “my baby, my rights” belief. This means a huge cultural shift where it becomes the norm for women to see men as having an equal stake in the children that men and women create together.

      And if that way of thinking was the cultural norm, then it would actually become more natural for a woman to be aware of the impact that her choices to opt into or opt out of parenting having on men—so in that respect it makes sense for us to want women to consider the rights of men when making choices about abortion—-even if that isn’t enshrined in law.

      A final point for me is that I think it’s a huge shame that the discussion about abortion is generally polarized between “pro-life” an “pro-choice”. When you step outside of the moral arguments and the gender politics and look at the issue with intelligence and compassion, it’s impossible not to come to the conclusion that the only humane perspective is to want to radically reduce the number of abortions that take place—for the sake of the mother, the father and the “unborn child”.

      I have lost count of the number of women I have met who have been emotionally damaged by abortion—and nobody warns them that this might happen because it is seen as an absolute taboo (amongst pro-choicers) to admit that abortion can damage women for years after.

      The issue I have with your suggestion that abortion is simple a pragmatic welfare issue men is that this suggests that there is nothing wrong with the status quo other than the fact that we need to take better care of the welfare of the people involved.

      If something is impacting people’s welfare—-I it’s my experience and belief that abortion does have many negative impacts—then we need to do more than address those impacts, we actually need to take action to reduce the prevalence of the procedure in the first place.

      I think that the only progressive, compassionate, humane thing to do, in relation to abortion, is to take action to radically reduce the number of abortions performed, without taking away women’s right to choose.

      There is little or no support for this conversation—again rather like men having a cultural “right” to have a view, it seems there is no cultural “right” to put forward the view that we should do all we can as a society to reduce the number of women and men who go through abortion every year.

      It seems to me that this is actually the most pressing welfare issue, that too many people have abortions in the first place and too few are prepared for the potential impact because it’s taboo to talk about reducing the number of abortions and taboo to talk about the fact that it can have a negative impact on the women and men involved.

      That’s my take for now.

      Very interesting topic, thanks to Paul for raising it and to Peter Chaplin for writing about the issue last month also:

      http://www.inside-man.co.uk/2015/04/14/how-are-men-affected-by-their-partners-abortion/

      Best

      Glen

    • Paul Mills

      Hi Duncan,

      Thanks for your response and extra perspective. I agree that there is a strong current feeling that men have very few paternity rights and rights over their unborn child. I also recognise that there is very little support for men around this area. These two facts shock me.

      How did we in the ‘civilised’ Western world get to this situation? Of course we would not want to return to the neandertal days when a woman was seen as a mans ‘chattel’ and her rights were virtually non existent and yet we seem to accept that the opposite is now both widely true and kind of ok! . Parenting thinking and literature talks about shared responsibility – partnership – joint care – moving away from traditional ‘blue and pink’ gender based parenting roles and yet …..

      One thing I do know, is that if in our species the male carried the child inside him until birth, and at the same time the female then was still equipped for early child rearing – feeding and nurturing with the necessary hormones and brain structure etc, etc – then the current dynamic – reversed would be seen as completely and utterly sexist.and intolerable.

  • insideMAN

    Hi Duncan

    Thanks for that considered opinion and for adding to the discussion.

    I agree with what you say about this being a pragmatic welfare issue for men, but I also think it’s more to it than that.

    I think this is a rights issue, in two specific ways.

    First it’s a cultural rights issues in terms of men asserting their “right” to have a voice in the gender discourse full stop. That’s what insideMAN is all about, it’s about empowering men to assert their “right” to have a view about gender issues—irrespective of whether we agree with that view or not. Men have a right to have a view about abortion and if the way they make sense of the issue is to focus on whether abortion is “right or wrong” or whether men should have a right to have a say or not, then so be it.

    I am of the view that society progresses more quickly when we talk about things than when we don’t talk about things. I personally don’t think the “right v wrong” OR the “men’s v women’s rights” angle is the most important angle, but I do think those who have that view should have space to express it and explore it and have their perspectives tested and challenged.

    The second rights angle, which is interesting to me, is the fact that a woman can both opt out and opt in to parenthood—-and whatever choice she makes the man will also be opted in or opted out of parenthood. That’s a huge amount of power to wield—to have such a huge impact on a man’s life—to prevent him from being a father or to make him into a father.

    Now I’m not suggesting we take away that right from women, but I do think that the “my body my rights” mantra very quickly becomes “my baby my rights” and then “my children my rights”—-and from years of observing family separation at close quarters I’m clear that in problematic case at least, no matter what age the children, the woman generally hold the belief “my children, my rights” and those women are either emotionally disconnected from (or simply don’t care about) the traumatic impact that their claim of “ownership” of the children can have on both the children and on their father.

    It seems to me that if parenting is to evolve into a much more gender equal pursuit, then one of the things that needs to happen is that women need to give up their claim to have greater ownership of their children than men—they need to let got of the “my baby, my rights” belief. This means a huge cultural shift where it becomes the norm for women to see men as having an equal stake in the children that men and women create together.

    And if that way of thinking was the cultural norm, then it would actually become more natural for women to be aware of the impact that her choices to opt into or opt out of parenting have on men—so in that respect it makes sense for us to want women to consider the rights of men when making choices about abortion—-even if that isn’t enshrined in law.

    A final point for me is that I think it’s a huge shame that the discussion about abortion is generally polarized between “pro-life” an “pro-choice”. When you step outside of the moral arguments and the gender politics and look at the issue with intelligence and compassion, it’s impossible not to come to the conclusion that the only humane perspective is to want to radically reduce the number of abortions that take place—for the sake of the mother, the father and the “unborn child”.

    I have lost count of the number of women I have met who have been emotionally damaged by abortion—and nobody warned them that this might happen because it is seen as an absolute taboo (amongst pro-choicers) to admit that abortion can damage women for years after.

    The issue I have with your suggestion that abortion is simply a pragmatic welfare issue for men is that this suggests that there is nothing wrong with the status quo, other than the fact that we need to take better care of the welfare of the people involved.

    If something is impacting people’s welfare—-and it’s my experience and belief that abortion does have many negative impacts—then we need to do more than address those impacts, we actually need to take action to reduce the prevalence of the procedure in the first place.

    I think that the only progressive, compassionate, humane thing to do, in relation to abortion, is to take action to radically reduce the number of abortions performed, without taking away women’s right to choose.

    There is little or no support for this conversation—again rather like men having a cultural “right” to have a view, it seems there is no cultural “right” to put forward the view that we should do all we can as a society to reduce the number of women and men who go through abortion every year.

    It seems to me that this is actually the most pressing welfare issue, that too many people have abortions in the first place and too few are prepared for the potential impact because it is a taboo to talk about reducing the number of abortions and it’s taboo to talk about the fact that abortion can have a negative impact on the women and men involved.

    That’s my take for now.

    Very interesting topic, thanks to Paul for raising it and to Peter Chaplin for writing about the issue last month also:

    http://www.inside-man.co.uk/2015/04/14/how-are-men-affected-by-their-partners-abortion/

    Best

    Glen Poole

    insideMAN

    • Groan

      I agree with the view that it is important not to exclude views based on people’s sex (or age or colour etc.). It is concerning the extent that identity politics acts to exclude those not of the identity from expressing a view. After all one can give greater weight to the views of those with direct experience if one believes this gives their argument strength.
      It is of course the case that discussion of “rights” and much less often responsibilities have moved to be mainly to do with what the social institutions in the society regulate(there are some interesting variations across states of the USA and of course both in current and historical jurisdictions acknowledgement of legitimacy plays the key part). Currently our social institution lend huge weight to genetic fatherhood in determining responsibilities. In so doing this implies conception is a logical place to trace biological father’s rights and responsibilities. I’m not sure what the resolutions might be but is seems to be illogical to claim this issue is solely about the mother if her decisions so directly enact responsibilities for the father in our jurisdiction (England and Wales). I suspect that in fact generally fathers would not see themselves as having a powerful moral “right” but that is not the same as legal rights and responsibilities.
      So yes it is important to hear many voices.

      • Paul Mills

        Morning Groan,

        What you say is true; and at the same time – in line with my last response- is it not extremely strange that so many genetic fathers feel they have so little moral ‘right’. As half of the child’s makeup and creation. I wonder if I am so unusual in being in a relationship where these things are very much jointly and equally held?

        I, of course recognise that in cases where a child is conceived as a result of sexual assault or where there are child and/or maternal health issues this balance should rightly be skewed towards the mother – and influenced by external advice. But, let’s be clear these cases (happily) are very much the minority.

        I love the other ‘R’ word – responsibility and often use it in connection with rights – as fathers we need shared responsibility and to acknowledge that and the longevity of it when considering parenting. As a foster parent myself, this one is all too real and the fact that I am not the genetic parent does not greatly get in the way or less my feeling of ongoing responsibility.

    • Paul Mills

      Glen,

      What you say is so true – and has focussed articulated extremely well my feelings and stance on the question of abortion – thanks

      I strongly agree that it is incredible that we see abortion as such an every day process. The trauma involved is immense – and I have often pondered what it must be like for the medical professionals involved in so many unnecessary terminations of an unborn child’s life. Some years ago I worked in a residential childrens home, with an ex nurse who was very clear that she felt that her several years in assisting abortions was a blight on her conscience that would stay with her for the rest of her life; and every time she verbalised this her eyes filled with tears.

      Here’s a radical thought. Would it not be a great thing if we as humans – both male and female – were born with a ‘default setting’ of infertile – which was only changed at the time we consciously chose to do so – with our chosen partner? If we park the ‘big brother’ aspect surely this would greatly reduce the number of abortions and at the same time skew the accepted norm back towards joint parental responsibility and accountability for choosing to be fertile.

    • David Oakwood

      I find this incredibly thought provoking. As a father of five children I have been fortunate to have had a partner who pretty much shared my views on abortion. I know that should there ever have been serious concerns regarding the health of any of our unborn children we would have met these concerns from a place of ‘togetherness’. We agreed that (in theory) we could imagine no situation so dire that abortion would have been an option for us. This has changed somewhat now that we have teenage daughters who are sexually active. To clarify, neither of my daughters is pregnant, and nor, for the foreseeable future, do I imagine that they will be. But as a potential grandfather, the issue of my right to speak up and share my views has arisen on a couple of occasions. I find myself floundering in this area. I can think of few things I want less for my daughters than an unwanted pregnancy and nor for that matter, do I want to be a grandfather for at least a decade. However, should such a situation arise, what on earth, other than loving and supportive, would I be able to ‘say’ regarding the life of my grandchild? It remains hypothetical and does not keep me awake at night, but certainly, having been discussed, has at times become rather heated. Just another layer of thought.
      The point I want to make is that society, leaning so heavily as it does on ‘Pro-choice’ certainly does seem to leave the father with ‘No-voice’. I have three intelligent, articulate and lovely female friends who have been open about their abortions. I am led to believe that in none of these cases did the father have a say. I only know one of these fathers and in the seventeen years since it happened he has never discussed it with me. But then, I have never asked. For years, it was the elephant in the room. Guys just don’t talk about it with each other. And if that is our choice, to remain silent, is it any wonder that the odd voice from braver (more passionate?) men should feel shot down in flames? Who wants to be the first to stick his head up from beneath the trenches?

  • Mary Louise

    Maybe its different in the UK. In the USA the conversation about abortion is pretty much dominated by male perspectives. It would be great to take everyone into account, but have to say the more radical voices on either side of the debate pretty much stop that happening.

    What I would like to say is that while I agree its pretty disheartening, this situation of not having a voice is pretty much derigeur for women on an infinite amount of topics. I have lost track of the number of reading lists, panels, workshops and debates that are either all men or have a token woman or two.

    As a woman I take your point… I think men should have a voice….

    I really hope the situation opens more mens eyes about how painful this experience is, both ways

  • Paul Mills

    Thanks for your perspective, Mary Louise. From what I understand abortion discussion in the USA is very linked to politics and religion, wouldn’t it be great if we were all given a ‘free vote’ instead of being coerced in toeing the party line.

    Of late we in the Uk seem to have a really strong group of women coming to the fore in a way that both genders can hear their message – because they are able to approach issues from the center , and suggest well thought through solutions that attempt to work for both genders. All power to them.

  • insideMAN

    Thanks Mary and Paul for taking the time to engage with the discussion and for your responses.