insideMAN

Female counselor says men are increasingly ashamed of their masculinity

by 20 Comments

As a woman, I first began to realise that something was amiss with male identity perceptions when I began counselling training in 2001.

Sitting in a personal development group with only two men present (one was a trainer, one was a student) I asked the males how they felt about being men in a predominantly female environment.  The trainee had no answer – but the trainer said: “well…I don’t really consider myself to be a man as such in this setting – we are just all people and we are all different”.  That answer got me pondering and was the start of my own research into male identity issues in the UK.

Fourteen years on, in what I would call a “post-feminist” society, I see evidence on a regular basis of men who seem to feel that they need to apologise for being male, and who definitely feel intimidated by some of the powerful females in the workplace.  For my MA in Integrative Counselling (2008) my dissertation was called “Exploring Male Identity in a Therapeutic Setting.”[1]  The focus group that I set up produced some interesting data:

“I have come up against some extremely competent females who have made me…embarrassed about my…maleness being so weak in comparison…”

“…manager who has got phenomenal…intelligence, capacity, empathy, sense of self, kind of blows me away – I really admire and respect her – and feel very small in comparison”

“I am absolutely convinced that I have been bullied…as a man…I think sometimes people wear their sexuality as an attacking armour”

Bazzano (2007) talks about “the emasculation of men in contemporary psychotherapy” and this is something that my research appeared to confirm.

There was a time when society celebrated the differences between male and female.  After all, it is difference that sparks off inspiration, difference that attracts, difference that inspires.  Now we seem to be in a fearful hermetically sealed capsule where we are so afraid of the “thought police” that we dare not come out with any “sexist” statements.

A retired teacher explained to me recently how the need to conform is hard wired in children from the start.  He observed over 30 years of teaching that certain patterns are always reproduced.  Asked to draw a picture of a house, a child routinely would come up with a square, windows in the four corners, door in the middle, smoke coming out of a central chimney, a line for the sky and a sun that looks like a spider to one side.  Such a house does not really exist anywhere – but it is none the less reproduced continually.

Anyone who suggests an idea that does not fit in with the normal status quo is always suspect – and scientists and inventors in the past often had a very hard time of it.

We now live in an age where it is fashionable in the West to slate the male – and to exalt the female – and to hint that for a strong woman, a man can be superfluous to requirements.

Speaking personally, I celebrate the differences between male and female, and appreciate the mysterious attraction that exists for me in male to female encounters.  It does not need to be analysed – but I am so glad that it is there at all in the first place.  Even gay men[2] [3] admit quite openly to finding women attractive – just not in a sexual way – but the “oppositeness” is still present.

The dilemma remains, whether men will end up by apologising for their existence or not, as women demand and demonstrate increasingly the need for their independence and autonomy?

What should the male response be?  I suggest that men need to find and play to their natural strengths – that is, to be men…and to resist the subtle pressure to become “tamed and manageable” for the women in their lives – whether at work or at play.

Comments welcome!

Jennie Cummings-Knight, MA, MBACP, PGCE, FHEA

www.goldenleafcounselling.com

[1] Exploring Male Identity in a Therapeutic Setting, Cummings-Knight, J (2008) York St John University

[2] http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1808546

[3] http://www.channel4.com/programmes/how-to-look-good-naked Gok Wan

 

  • Fraga123

    These deformed, misshapen women you call “men”…what do they expect?

  • Groan

    Mot sure that this is the case generally. However what interesting is any work actually listening to men. The noticeable thing is how very rarely people supposedly interested in gender don’t actually bother to research masculinity or men by actually researching men and their perceptions and perspectives.

    • Grave,Regis

      Why would they research it? They already have “women’s intuition” about how it works! Don’t you know that all women are literally empaths? That’s why women get to “femsplain” men’s attitudes and feelings about everything, to actual men who think they know better but are really just blind to how patriarchy affects them.

  • Grave,Regis

    You suggest that men not let it get to us, that we “resist the subtle pressure”—but how exactly do you think this would work? It isn’t polite or PC to admit, but the biological fact of the matter is the entire universe of men’s social interactions is essentially turned upside-down when you inject the weaker sex into the situation. All straight men are either incapable of seeing women’s flaws—making them extremely easily manipulated by their femininity—or are (labeled) “misogynists” for treating women the same as men. It really is a no-win situation for them.

    We’re really talking about the most cutthroat of the cutthroat here—I mean, CEOs, managers, etc.—when we talk about the positions where feminism claims “sexism” is still causing inequality. And women in these positions are precisely the creatures most aware of the unfair advantages they have, and willing to take advantage of them. They can be “strong and independent” one second, and the next second sue a company for sexism because somebody didn’t put up with their particular version of what a “strong and independent” woman is. That’s not fair. However “gender-neutral” the legal language may be in theory, men will never have the option of using “sexism” as a legally compelling excuse for not being liked or for being fired or demoted.

    A female boss is capable of every abuse of power a male boss might commit—from micromanaging to sexual coercion—plus a whole different level of social aggression and emotional manipulation on top of that. And if you have female coworkers who have a “bad feeling” about you and decide you’ve gotta go? Forget it. You don’t have a prayer. Especially if your employer is a woman as well.

    • http://www.goldenleafcounselling.com Jennie C-K

      Thanks for your comments – I agree that women can use their more finely honed social skills to be even more manipulative than men, in some situations
      Jennie

      • Grave,Regis

        I was definitely not talking about social skills.

        • http://www.goldenleafcounselling.com Jennie C-K

          Hello Grave
          Sorry, “social” was a bit of a euphemism!!! lets just say that in games of power various tactics are used… J

          • Grave,Regis

            Fair enough. I was just saying I don’t think that “being seen as a victim due solely to anatomy” qualifies as a skill, social or otherwise.

  • jemmy

    Nope. The only way this will come about is for men to just take control and assert some dominance over women, or to continue to give up while Muslim men take over the world. They’re not afraid of being men so they’re happy to fill the vaccuum. But you can’t have masculinity thrive in a world with independent women who are yet so fragile and play the victim and get upset when a man inserts his rationality. Feminism has poisoned things.

  • vfr100

    “What should the male response be? I suggest that men need to find and play to their natural strengths – that is, to be men…and to resist the subtle pressure to become “tamed and manageable” for the women in their lives – whether at work or at play.”

    This sounds so easy but the reality is it is extremely hard to do because of the systemic things that are reinforcing the problem. Men are disadvantaged from the start, including education, health spend and support, Justice system, parenting, suicide rates etc etc.

    The ONS identified that women take on the role of Alpha in 75% of marriages especially when it comes to financial decision making. Male power truly is a myth but one that is perpetuated by parliament (that Jess Philips MP for example), the media and so much more. With the new approach to DV (control and Coercion) I suspect that many men who take a stand against female power in their home will find themselves under investigation very quickly, but with an unsympathetic police force how many men will report their female partners for such an approach to the relationship?

    • http://www.goldenleafcounselling.com Jennie C-K

      Yes, I know what you mean – have you read Warren Farrell’s The Myth of Male Power”? (1993, Berkley Publishing Group) You can hear him this year in London 24-25 June. Have a look at this link: http://www.malepsychology.org.uk/index.html

  • William Collins

    “What should the male response be?…..to be men”. That reminds me of the time I told my wife’s sister that my brother’s wife was beating him up. She looked put out. She went quiet for a couple of minutes. Then, clearly irritated, she said, “well, he should just be a man!”. My point is that that advice is completely vacuous. What my wife’s sister really meant was – as a man he just shouldn’t have problems – especially a problem with a woman – and he, as a man, should just make his problem go away and stop bothering people. She had no more idea than me how that might best be accomplished, and she didn’t much care.
    The parallel is apposite, for feminism has been exercising psychological abuse on men – and boys – for nearly half a century – and it still does no good to recommend that we “be men”. “Being men” in the only sense I recognise, the traditional male, only made sense in the gendered society which no longer exists. The traditional male role has been destroyed and there is more left of my pride than will be satisfied by mere clinging to the wreckage, thanks.
    The MHRM recognises the pressing need for a new sense of purpose, a new source of male pride – but what this may be has not yet emerged. However, we do understand one absolute requirement – that gynocentrism must be rejected. Men’s worth as human beings can longer be allowed to rest on ratification by women. Gynocentrism is the source of the shame-weapon which feminism has deployed with such devastating effect. Restoration of self respect requires rejection of the shaming, and hence rejection of gynocentrism. This understanding is the genie which feminism released from the bottle and will not go back in. Amusingly, feminists think that MRAs want to turn the clock back to the 1950s. They have absolutely no idea how radical the MHRM is.
    Feminism was the first, and easier, step away from the gendered society towards equality. It was the easier step because it mostly involves “external” things – i.e., work, principally. The purpose of this, to feminists, was to make women independent of men – which means, in their case, financially independent. But men have made little progress in reciprocating – in becoming independent of women. What? Men are currently dependent on women? Preposterous! Except, of course, it is far from preposterous. Men are emotionally and psychologically in thrall to women (which is why the shame-weapon works). But because this female power over men is “internal”, covert if you will, it’s importance has gone unrecognised. In short – men need to liberate themselves. But liberating yourself from your own psychology is not an easy task – especially when the psychological state has been legislated by evolution. MGTOW is a beginning, but it is not enough.

    • http://www.goldenleafcounselling.com Jennie C-K

      How to “be a man” is an ongoing subject to discuss, for which there are no easy answers. But the idea is to get you thinking about what it means to you. I am glad to read your response as it proves the point – it has inspired you to write something here. Jennie

  • Robjam01

    Interesting article however, as a gay man I find it really tiresome that women still insist that we find them attractive. They just can’t accept the fact that we don’t want them.

    • http://www.goldenleafcounselling.com Jennie C-K

      Hello Robjam01
      I have to disagree with you as I know various gay men who DO need the women in their lives and do find them attractive – but not sexually!

    • Trollicus

      I’m straight, very liberal and %100 MGTOW (15 years now!)

      My female friends are always saying things like

      You’re a great looking guy, social and outgoing. Why don’t you date?

      Because modern society has made women toxic and dangerous. They fail even the most generous of cost benefit analyses. I have better things to do than be a walking ATM and pot to pour abuse in.

  • disqus_ArQv6e31it

    3rd wave feminism is an ideology based on misandry and it is destroying the world and the relationship between men and women. When all you hear over and over from the media in all its forms is that men are bad, what the hell do you expect. Feminism is nothing but legalized hatred of men.

    I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them. Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor

    “To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo” Valerie Solanas

    I would actually put them all in some kind of camp where they can all drive around in quad bikes, or bicycles, or white vans. I would give them a choice of vehicles to drive around with, give them no porn, they wouldn’t be able to fight – we would have wardens, of course! Women who want to see their sons or male loved ones would be able to go and visit, or take them out like a library book, and then bring them back. Julie Bindel is a misandrist feminist who is a
    regular columnist for the Guardian newspaper

    “We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men” Elizabeth Cady Stanton

    “I love the power women have. I think women rule the world because they rule men. Manipulating men – that’s our job. That’s what we’re on the planet for.” Isla Fisher

    The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the
    human race. Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future – If There Is One – Is Female

    If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males. Mary Daly

    I Don’t Like White Men, I Want Them to Be a Lost Species. Yasmin Alibhai-Brown:

    “I would personally like to castrate every Male Conservative Christian so that
    they have NO reproductive rights,” Laura Levites, using the hashtag
    “#HobbyLobby.”

    To be male is to be deficient, emotionally limited; maleness is a
    deficiency disease and males are emotional cripples”, Valerie Solanas

    Women have their faults / men have only two: / everything they say /
    everything they do. Popular Feminist Graffiti6

  • NickyB

    I think this is the about the male unconscious response to the social narrative. We are infused into a culture of self-righteous belief around women (it has been implanted into the collective conscious that up until a century ago men treated ‘their’ women like cattle (presumably including mothers/wives/ sisters). The result of this is that men now not only carry the shame of just being male; but also the split-off shadow of the female psyche (2 breasts good, 2 balls bad). I think this is also about female narcissisum and male codependecy. Of course, this is not a totality: I suspect most women and men do their best to just get on with their lives in partnership (partnership is presumably better than division).

    More broadly capitalist forces are pulling women away from nurturing roles to make females the primary economic units as their soft skills are more necessary and desirable to modern economic needs than male strength was 50 years ago (from coal mines to call centres) . Also women make 80% of consumer purchases: I ask ‘Where is it in the best interests in the bankers economy for power to be invested?’ I (perhaps rather beligerently) see modern feminism as essentially an ironic trojan horse for male bankers to convert traditional economic roles for profit – which is causing a lot of anomie (western male suicide rates are testament to this).

    I think there is a great deal of ingenuity and creativity in the male psych which infuriates feminists (men just won’t conform!) . I believe that young men operate more and more in their own sphere beyond the traditional centre of society and that this is a good thing. The tragedy however remains when young men decide to ‘grow up’ and face their caged isolation in a female dominion. I found it quite laughable coming across ‘WE’ the women’s equality political party. I suspect we need to laugh more at these forces becuase their is something quite victorian about their deluded righteousness.

    But somethings is going wrong. I work as a counsellor with young people. Very often I notice my females clients carry a burden too big to bare. It’s about exams, university: the future. With males it seems to be direction: there is none.

    • http://www.goldenleafcounselling.com Jennie C-K

      Some really good points, Nicky. And so apt – “from coal mines to call centres” – how times have changed – and not for the better either…as you say, women carry bigger burdens than before in that they have to be successful at work and at home as well. Please keep on “not conforming” as men and encourage others to do so too!

  • Trollicus

    I think the majority of the men I know have decided when it comes to women.
    “It’s a strange game, the only way to win is not to play.”

    Remember %99 of MGTOW men have never heard of MGTOW.